Make Craftyn Great Again - Fix The Economy!

Discussion in 'Ideas/Suggestions' started by coolepicbuilder, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. coolepicbuilder

    coolepicbuilder Mayor of Boston

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    I mean, let's all be rich, right?

    This is the current problem with our economy. Too many players make too much money out of thin air; some players make enough money to fund a town in a day. If you don't add anything in productive value, why should you get sums of money?

    This is a fundamental question that many ask in real life. Why should we give someone $1000 a month if they will do nothing? Good question, however I'm not here to talk about UBI, Andrew Yang, etc. I'm here to talk about Craftyn.

    Our economy has crashed and no one is willing to talk about it.

    Bank interest is an exponential money printing machine. When the server started out, having a bank to jump-start the economy was a sound choice. People could purchase things with more money as long as they saved up; towns could form faster and nations as well. This system was all fine and dandy, until two things happened: Sonic hit $1k a day, and aestheticc proposed to buy out spawn with the sums of cash he had. Now, Sonic comes on now and then, however aestheticc is highly inactive. It makes no sense that someone who doesn't come on the server can just build up huge sums of money for not even playing.

    That was the case about a month ago. Things have changed.

    We are getting to a point where the wealthy can bankroll a town in a day. We are getting to a point where even a nation tax is no longer required (remember when towns used to tax? hah). We are getting to a point where no one buys goods or votes because the money from interest outnumbers that of selling or voting.

    Tell me why anyone should play when the fundamental pillar of this server is collapsing. Tell me why I am wrong while all your friends leave due to "boredom."

    Having too much money printed in thin air makes having a shop worthless. For those who don't own towns, having a shop brings in much needed money. They can sell goods which can be used to expand their business, pay for tax, and other expenses. Here's the thing: why should I have a shop when I make too much in interest and while I'm not taxed?

    The cycle of the economy is broken. A healthy economy has money flowing in and out, however with too much money flowing in and not enough going out, this economy has proven to be on life support.

    I suggest we fix this ASAP. I have suggested similar things months ago however this is urgent if the server is to keep players from leaving due to "boredom."

    I suggest...
    • An immediate removal of the banking plugin to stop high amounts of "free money" to stop flowing in
    • A doubling of voting rewards to balance out the bank plugin's loss and to mitigate the wealth gained from the bank plugin.
    Removing the bank plugin would bring a much needed relief to all these issues. Keeping the bank plugin and removing offline interest (which has been suggested) would only be helpful if you were able to be on for when bank interest is computed (1 PM EDT). If you cannot get on that time but you are an active player, well you're screwed. Furthermore, that does not solve the issue of loads of free money since those who make nearly 2k a day will still get tons of money (around 1k) which does not solve the issues stated above. I know this is a radical issue however we cannot shun away from such considering the gravity this issue holds to the server staying healthy for the foreseeable future.

    We should also double the voting rewards. Not many people vote as it is, which is a shame considering it promotes the server to potential new players (some of who may be active members in the future). We are missing out because there is no real incentive to vote if you make a ton already! Voting will also "inflate" the economy a little, however this will reduce the fat stacks owned by do-nothing players.

    Now I know what mayors are thinking: "How do I afford to keep up my town? How do I afford to keep up my nation? How do I have some reserves left for build projects?"

    Tax. Yes, this may remove inactive res (which helps you get more claims), however I suggest NOT implementing that tax (resident tax). Rather, look into taxing shops via a shop plot tax. Let the economy flow the way its supposed to. There's no such thing as a free lunch, so your town can't just be a tax-free haven for the entirety of your town's run.

    I hope you see the urgency in this issue being addressed and I hope to see your support in the comments below. If you do not agree with a specific solution (or any of them), feel free to voice your opinion below. The more support / disagreement we receive the more we can work out to fixing this issue.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. MinerSmall

    MinerSmall Mayor of the Cayman_Islands

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    The interest rate is in the process of being lowered which will already limit the amount of money flowing into the economy, i don't agree that removing the bank plugin entirely is the right option, i think we need to instead focus on lifting those who are at the bottom up rather than lowering those at the top down. So, i would agree that a raise in voting rates would aid in bridging the gap between the fortunate and less fortunate but would strongly warn against punishing players for having more money, as that will only push more active players off the server.
    I would instead argue this economy and the server as a whole has a larger issue, that we currently don't have a strong enough core player base or staff team (yes, i know gh0st is working on it) and until that is fixed new players just will not want to stick around long enough to earn and spend money in the economy. On the same front, i find it frustrating as a consumer that the shops i frequent are always constantly out of stock or extremely overpriced, and most of that comes down to inactive owners who have either left the server entirely or are so disenfranchised and fed up with the server that they are on indefinite hiatus, only ready to return when these issues are solved. Once we have a solid, strong and stable staff team, the community will be able to flourish once again and the economy will return with it.
     
  3. MinerSmall

    MinerSmall Mayor of the Cayman_Islands

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    I do want to add, there is a hell of a lot of toxicity and anger within the community which is frankly killing the server, no one wants to be on a server full of passive aggressiveness and conflict and without putting blame on anyone i would say the absence of a strong staff team really exacerbates the issue as there's literally no one on to police conflicts and work out misunderstandings between players. That in itself impacts the economy dreadfully as literally 90% of the player base no longer plays on a regular basis. If we are to fix our economy, we first need to address the issues that killed it in the first place.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. coolepicbuilder

    coolepicbuilder Mayor of Boston

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    I highly doubt anyone has left due to drama. There have been relatively few incidents due to drama and the parties who have gotten into drama have not left the server.

    Removing interest rates does not punish players for having a ton of money. It would instead balance the economy out where an exponential gain of money would not incur. This would allow players to make money by selling goods and services, which reduces boredom (you have a goal to achieve that requires work), henceforth keeping players active and moving new players into being active members.

    As outlined already, removing interest rates would allow this to happen. Keeping interest rates would only widen the wealth gap (it is already gargantuan already, let's fix this!)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. Typh

    Typh Helper Helper

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Checked what was popping in the forums, saw this, now I feel I gotta make this post. First, a lot of people are inactive (sad to think about actually), myself included, and I want to explain why I've been inactive. Ever since early May I've been taking this Linear Algebra summer class and it finally ended 2 days ago, keep in mind this is a class people usually take after Calc 3. It was very difficult and it took up so much of my free time. I'd just constantly think about it, if I logged onto the server anytime recently it was to ease my stress a little or because I wanted to spend a little of my already little free time seeing who was on the server.

    About bank interest, I won't reveal how much bank interest I get on the server but I will say the amount mentioned above is an underestimate and that there are people richer than I am who are even less active than I am. Now I don't have any good ideas on how to change the economy without it backfiring, something should have been done about it months ago (maybe lowering offline bank interest rates?) but if anything changes I'm down.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. RarePear

    RarePear Owner Owner

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2019
    Messages:
    38
    Honestly, I'm running out of creative ways to say this. I have acknowledged both the economy and roamer issue on multiple occasions, and frankly, the answer hasn't changed. I'm on your side- advocating for an economy fix but I am not capable of making those changes. If I would, I could. Gray is the only one who can make that adjustment, and he hasn't had the time to do so but I do keep insisting that it happens. That's about as far as it can go right now on my end. Continuing to repeat that the economy is failing will not change that. Just know that it is on our to-do list so there's no further reason to advocate something that has been accepted.

    However, I've been drafting a ton of adjustments/additions to the server in the past two weeks that I can't wait to share with you guys. My goal is to get it all implemented within this month before classes start. Gray is aware of my goal and I believe he will return shortly to help get the server quirks flattened out and implement my changes. I do ask for encouragement during this time as there's only been defeating words. Which is completely understandable given the circumstance, but repetition about the issue will not help. The server HAD to be put on the backburner after the first month due to jeopardizing issues, as we're all adults now- I'm sure everyone can understand choosing the priority of life over Minecraft. Unfortunately, that slowed down the process entirely but everything has been taken care of irl and I would like to continue where things were left off. I do apologize for that but I'm extremely excited about what's in store for the future of the server, it's just hard to do with a consistent doubting from players.

    So please continue to show your support and understand that we will make a change to help the economy and roamer increase, even if it's a bit slow in progression. (Cannot guarantee it will be the removal of the bank plugin, but definitely a decrease in interest rates. I do appreciate the new concept though). :skype_inlove:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. MinerSmall

    MinerSmall Mayor of the Cayman_Islands

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    I think its less of a thing of people leaving specifically due to drama and more a subconscious push, if someone is already busy with irl commitments and somehow manages to find the time to log on one or two hours a day it can be really disheartening and off-putting when drama and conflict is all around, its not a specific reaction to any one incident of drama but its more of a gentle push towards inactivity on someone who's already sitting on the cliff edge, if you get my metaphor.

    I have doubts over whether a lot of people would find that fun though, most people log onto Minecraft to escape work and relax rather than have a fixed goal and complete it. The other point i would have being that people who have been very wealthy and very influential for a long time really really do not like it if you suddenly take away either of the two and a sudden cutoff like removing a bank plugin all together could be enough to tip some people who are on the edge of leaving into what I call a 'bad exit' (when an actor storms off the stage when their scene didn't go exactly as they wanted). That's why I suggest we would take a more gentle and incremental approach to (as you call it) 'balance' the economy rather than going in guns blazing and risking getting shot back.

    Again, what I'm saying is it's a hell of a lot easier to increase the income of the poorest than it is to try and decrease the income of the richest, I don't think I need to tell you that most of the people don't like the economy as it is but imagine the upset and discontent that suddenly removing the one thing that was working -for at least a small amount of players- would create among them. We need to build a solid player base, combine a multitude of personalities to create a strong and stable staff team and return some player responsibility into the community first (which would create the groundworks for a healthy and functioning economy) and then address our economic problems face on, but with a mindset of shifting the income from interest to shop income RATHER THAN just decreasing income from interest. At the moment, we all know it's nigh impossible to get a decent income off shop income alone and it won't suddenly change if we decrease interest rates. Basically, build the shop income first so when you cut interest income there's still a place to get money from.

    There's a skillshare course to help you find creative ways to represent information

    SHARE THE ADJUSTMENTS NOW, THE CRAFTYN PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW

    I do agree we all need to stop being so negative, and I'm guilty of it myself, but the problems will only ever be as great as we make them to be.

    It definitely has gotten better after you explained your situation with gray and gave people a rough time table but I think you do have to see it from a player's perspective as well, we don't get to see what progress is being made or what happens when you log off the server and naturally people get concerned if they can't see a clear path to success, I think one of the biggest concerns was no one knew if either you or gray were actually going to return and that sort of caused a chain reaction of doubt and worry. As I said though, it has got 1000x times better than it was.

    We all have irl commitments now and it'd be unreasonable to expect you and everyone else to be online on a regular schedule, what I do think is missed in this answer is that when people do spend their little free time on the server, they see it as mainly a social occasion rather than a project which I interpret coolepicbuilder to understand the server as, and while both things are completely fine and can work in tandem, it is foolish to ignore that a large percentage of people wouldn't want to run a shopping business or own an active town because in reality, to keep it going is a really tying endeavour and in the long run, probably isn't worth it.

    I'm not suggesting that it should be compulsory but I would wonder if you guys are really inactive and want to help spread the wealth around maybe you could all come together and give a set amount to every player who logs on in a certain time frame? Let's face it, it'd get you guys some good publicity and that's never a bad thing :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

    Also as a side note, I think I can claim the title for Craftyn's longest posted response post! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    • Bad Spelling Bad Spelling x 1
  8. Typh

    Typh Helper Helper

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    I agree, it is unreasonable to expect me, or the other helpers for that matter, to always be active. I had to say something about my inactivity because this was mentioned:

    Had to explain why I was getting bank interest for not playing. I thought I made it clear, before I stopped logging in regularly, that I'd spend time on this class so that was a little reminder. Anyway, I have multiple plans on how I should distribute the wealth I had gained. I remember visiting Boston to buy a bunch of stuff from some of the shops there, I plan on doing more of that for other towns. Once I get back on regularly I'll focus on how to distribute mirs.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. coolepicbuilder

    coolepicbuilder Mayor of Boston

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    Hey you don’t need to distribute your money. I was just offering a way to prevent a widening wealth gap and a more fair economy for all.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Typh

    Typh Helper Helper

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    I'd wanna do this anyway, it won't hurt, there's also jobs I'd wanna offer people that I've been talking to Tann about for a while. I had plans to distribute mirs for a while but inactivity prevented me from doing any of that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. MinerSmall

    MinerSmall Mayor of the Cayman_Islands

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    I think the best thing to do atm with the eco as a whole is to trust the owners will do the right thing, i know neither ghost nor gray would ever intentionally hurt the server and anything they do wrong they would put right. And to be fair, at the end of the day its their server so its their prerogative to ruin it if they choose to.
     
  12. MinerSmall

    MinerSmall Mayor of the Cayman_Islands

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    Obviously I'm nowhere near as rich as either you or tann but I'm down to be involved in a wealth distribution plan, as any New England citizen would know I've already given out a 1000 mir freedom dividend! (y)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Typh

    Typh Helper Helper

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    There's not going to be a wealth distribution plan to be involved in, I'm just going to use my money to get certain tasks done which will offer people the opportunity to earn something. Primarily for my nation.
     
  14. MinerSmall

    MinerSmall Mayor of the Cayman_Islands

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    Maybe we could set up a inter-nation project on it? offering people in both nations the opportunity to earn some fast money by completing projects
     
  15. Typh

    Typh Helper Helper

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Right now my priorities are set and I have made plans. There's a chance for such projects in the future but that will have to be discussed with Tann and the other nation officials.